The Problem of Talking Past One Another
The Problem of Talking Past One Another by Rev. L. John Gable
January 23, 2022
Sometimes even seemingly simple conversations can be confusing.
My first call to ministry was as an associate pastor in Mansfield, OH and one of my primary responsibilities was to follow up on those who had visited with us. Mansfield is a small enough town that I often just stopped by people’s homes to welcome them in person. One day I went to the home of a couple who had worshiped with us the Sunday before. As I rang the bell a woman came to the door and as I began to introduce myself, “Hi, my name is John…” to my surprise, she said, “I know, come on in.” It was almost as if she had been expecting me. She quickly apologized that her husband wasn’t home, but hoped he’d be home soon because she was sure he would have some questions for me as well. I said, “That’s fine, I can always come back another time.” “No, no”, she said, and with that she started showing me around their home and explaining some of the renovations they were planning to make, which of course I was interested in but I wasn’t quite sure why she was telling me these things, when suddenly the doorbell rang. She again went to the door, and there stood a man who introduced himself as John, who was coming to take measurements for new windows. With that the woman turned and looked at me and said, “So, who are you?”
That obviously was a case of mistaken identity, but have you ever gone in to a computer store or listened as someone orders a cup of specialty coffee? It sounds as though they are speaking a foreign language. They are using words either totally unfamiliar to us or familiar words in an unfamiliar way. Something similar seems to be happening in both of our Gospel lessons this morning. Seemingly simple conversations were suddenly very confusing.
The Gospel writer John tells us a series of stories to demonstrate Jesus’ rather unorthodox way of teaching beginning with the lesson we looked at last week. Do you recall in the story about Jesus overturning the tables of the buyers and the sellers in Temple how He made reference to “destroying the temple and in three days raising it back up again?” His listeners said, “No way! King Herod has been working on this construction for 46 years!”, but Jesus wasn’t talking about the Temple temple, He was talking about His being the new dwelling place of God among His people and then predicted His own death and resurrection. The meaning of that conversation went right over their heads.
We see the same in the very familiar story of Jesus’ conversation with the Pharisee Nicodemus. Nicodemus was a high ranking Jewish official, a member of the Sanhedrin, so he was taking some risk to his position and reputation by making this nighttime visit with Jesus. He readily acknowledged that Jesus was someone special, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do the signs that you do apart from the presence of God.” To which Jesus makes His now famous response, “Truly I tell you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born from above (born anew, born again)”, an absolutely true statement but seemingly disconnected to Nicodemus’ opening comment. Is it any wonder he was confused as to what Jesus was talking about, being born a second time? So he asks, “How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time in to the mother’s womb and be born?” At this point it is pretty clear that these two are talking past one another. Nicodemus is thinking physical birth and Jesus is talking about spiritual rebirth. As He was so adept at doing, Jesus was using everyday realities to convey heavenly truths and the same can be said about the conversation He has with the Samaritan woman at the well, but admittedly at times the conversations get a bit confusing.
This woman already had three strikes against her such that it would have been socially unacceptable for Jesus to be talking with her at all: she was a woman, a Samaritan, and she had a past, but none of those things kept Him from doing so. They started talking about water when He asked her to get Him a drink from the well, and then offered her a taste of “living water”. Like Nicodemus before her, she was thinking well water and He was teaching about the “spring of water gushing up to eternal life.” Again they were faced with the problem of talking right past each other. As the saying goes, “I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” Which of us has not faced that similar challenge in our seemingly simple conversations with spouses, children, parents, colleagues?
Admittedly, we could spend weeks unpacking these two stories because they speak to us of important truths, but today I’d like to focus on the question as to why Jesus speaks in this way and if we have similarly confusing conversations with Him still today?
Some have suggested that Jesus was being deliberately ambiguous in these conversations, intentionally trying to keep His listeners in the dark about His true meaning? I don’t buy it. Perhaps there might have been some mistaken identity going on, they didn’t expect this kind of Messiah, but I see no reason why He would be intentionally misleading. Rather, I think Jesus and His listeners were simply talking on two different levels; one was talking at the human level, as we’ve called it the lower story, and Jesus about spiritual truths on the upper story. He was using familiar language in unfamiliar ways, so His message was a double entendre.
Unlike the other Gospel writers, in John’s Gospel Jesus doesn’t tell parables (which we must admit are often confusing enough in and of themselves). Instead John uses Jesus’ miracles or signs as the platform to give His message and reveal His identity. Not to over-simplify Jesus’ teaching method but He most often used very simple, at hand, illustrations to point to His profound truths, in much the same way we attempt to do when giving a children’s sermon. I know you know the story of the minister who said to the children, “I’m thinking of something that is grey, has a big bushy tail, eats nuts and lives in a tree.” One little boy raised his hand and said, “It sounds like a squirrel to me but I know the answer is Jesus.”
Invariably, Jesus is the answer to every truth He teaches. As He makes comments about the temple being destroyed and raised again in three days, about the necessity of being born again, or of drinking from the well of living water, He is not trying to be deliberately ambiguous; rather He is trying to make a connection between the physical world and the spiritual world, between the things that His listeners know and the things of God He wants to introduce them to. He is inviting them, and us, to enter in to deeper conversations as He reveals spiritual truths by using the familiar to point to the unfamiliar, which is a brilliant teaching strategy.
When talking with Nicodemus, a man who was well-versed in religious knowledge, traditions and rituals, Jesus could have argued and debated with him, but He chose instead to point him to the essential truth that “what is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.” Just as there is a physical birth, so there must be a spiritual rebirth, a second birth, one must be born anew, born again, born from above to enter the Kingdom of God. Just as the Samaritan woman wanted to know how to get some of that living water so that she wouldn’t have to keep coming back to that dank and dirty well, so Jesus shows Himself to be the One who alone can give her the gift of living water gushing up to abundant and eternal life.
Sometimes the easiest way, even for us today, to enter into a conversation about spiritual things with someone is to start with some very common, everyday thing or experience, then see where the conversation goes. Several years ago I was standing in line at Starbucks behind a gentleman who was ordering his drink. I frequented that Starbucks regularly so I knew all of the baristas and many of their back stories. They all knew that I am a pastor and I know many of them to be active in their own churches, some even engaged in ministry, including the one who was working that day. As the gentleman began to pay he was instructed to insert his card in to the new chip reader, then to wait a moment for it to be approved. Several seconds passed and the barista said, “OK, you can remove your card. You have been approved.” “I’ve been approved?” said the gentleman. “Yes, at least this time. At least for today”, said the server. Removing his card, the man replied, “Wouldn’t it be nice if we could be approved every day, for your whole life?” At that instant the barista caught my eye, then smiled at the gentleman and said, “I could lead you in that direction if you would like.” The fellow simply smiled and said, “thank you” as he put his card back in his wallet and walked off to enjoy His drink. Those two were talking on two different levels, one of the lower story the other of the upper story. It would have been interesting to hear how that conversation might have unfolded had they not been talking past one another.
As we read the Gospel stories and listen to Jesus’ teachings I suspect we have similarly confusing conversations with Him. We can’t help but wonder, “What does He mean when He says, “You are salt of the earth or the light of the world?”; that the “first must be last and the last first?”; that “those who want to be great must be the servant of all?”; that we must “lay down our lives and take up our cross?”; that “those who find their life will lose it and those who lose their live for My sake will find it”? How often do we hear Jesus asking His disciples, “Do you understand what I am saying to you?” They nod their heads “yes”, then readily admit “no.” And how often might we confess the same? Jesus uses very familiar words in very unfamiliar ways, which while at first may cause us some confusion, invariably invites us in to deeper conversations and reflection.
Is Jesus trying to be vague, obtuse, deliberately ambiguous and misleading? No, He is inviting us to draw closer and go deeper, and it works, sometimes in the moment, and other times it takes some time. Nicodemus shows up two more times in John’s Gospel, the next time in chapter seven when he defends Jesus and argues that He deserves a hearing before He is charged with any crime, and then at the end of the Gospel when he, along with a man named Joseph of Arimathea, takes the body of the crucified Jesus and prepares it for burial. It may have taken him awhile to fully understand who Jesus was and what He meant when He talked about being “born from above”, but evidently he eventually got there. The Samaritan woman, on the other hand, got there fast. As their well conversation continued Jesus disclosed to her things He knew about her which convinced her that He really was the Messiah. Later in the story we are told that she ran in to town, something a woman of ill-repute would not readily do, and told everyone who would listen to her about her encounter with Jesus, and they too came to believe.
Admittedly, some of the conversations we have with Jesus are very confusing. We seem to be talking past one another. What does He mean? What is He asking of us? He uses such simple language to explain such profound truths, such familiar words in such unfamiliar ways. Why is it so difficult for us to understand what He is saying? Is He being deliberately ambiguous? No, He is simply inviting us to enter in to a conversation with Him, inviting us to seek until we find, that in our searching we may discover the pearl of great price or the treasure buried in the field, that we may drink of the living water and experience the new life of being born from above. He is inviting us into a conversation with Him so that we may draw closer and go deeper. Whether you enter into that conversation readily or reluctantly, I invite you, please, to accept His invitation.
Rev. L. John Gable
Tabernacle Presbyterian Church
Indianapolis, IN